Is affiliated with ?
: It's not at all other than the fact they're in the same city. The way I sort of break it down is, Second City is sort of the grand daddy and is the only one that pays. People were frustrated with the way Second City did things so they created the ImprovOlympic, and then frustrated with the way ImprovOlympic was doing it, so they created . People were then frustrated with the way all of those guys were doing things, so they created , and on and mother effing on.

And you were performing at every venue?
I did shows in every single place. I even performed with in Amsterdam. I loved performing, that was what it was all about. I loved feeling like you're becoming a better performer and getting to befriend people who made you laugh so hard. It's crazy for me to think that I was only there (Chicago) for three years. I was there from September of '97 to September '00. I never got to do one of the stages in Chicago, either or the main stages at Second City, but I got to finally get that feeling once I got to , which I'll get to. So, I got into the touring company, and then the other thing that I'm pretty proud of, there was a show "The Armando Diaz", and it was as if we were freshman and sophomores, there were people who had been there for three years and longer who were doing the Armando show. On the back of every single schedule were the list of teams and all the names, so early on I would circle people I'd seen perform and I really had enjoyed. I eventually had this list of like, fifty names, you know? There were so many great people. And slowly but surely, me and my friend Ike Barinholtz, who was on Mad TV, we'd created this show called J.T.S. Brown, which was named after the bourbon Fast Eddie drinks in The Hustler. It was basically this new generation of people, about 14 or so of us. It was this formless improv show. We'd rehearsed three times a week for about a year before we did a show. It was like, this crazy experiment. We wanted the show to be - there were these shows like Jazz Freddy and all of these improv shows that were bench marks for the improv community in Chicago, Armando was along those lines too. So we wanted to do something we would take as seriously. It's so awful, with improv just as you create it, it's gone. Sort of like fireworks, you know? It's like "Wasn't that neat?" and then you move on. You drink a beer and maybe talk about it, that's it. But at that point we wanted to really create a good group. We had a draft committee, there were six of us who came up with the exact cast - we had this great poster with all of us. With that show we created a form that they still teach. If you go see "2 Square" or "3 Square" with , Lutz and , they're doing J.T.S. Brown forms.

And you helped create this?
Yeah, there were twelve of us, plus our coach. directed us. In the early stages, we would bring in a different coach every week. We wanted to be influenced in every possible way.

By "formless" what exactly do you mean?
You know how there's a monologist in ? A guy does the monologue and then there are five scenes, then the guy comes back. That's the quote, unquote form. We had moves, little wrinkles, as we'd called them. Things we'd try to do. It was all truly - I mean all improv is basically formless. The fact that they teach J.T.S. Brown improv-style is funny to us because, literally there wasn't one. We were just people who came in with ideas, you know? There were never any tag outs, there were never any players entering a scene and maintaining the same reality. There were little rules here and there, but nothing you would have to adhere to. People still talk about that show to this day. I'm still reminded of it whenever I go back to Chicago, just talking to John Lutz and Pete Grosz, who are more connected to the Chicago scene then I was. Man, I've been gone for seven years now. That was a really good time. We get asked to go back to the every year. The majority of people who were involved are still working.

Was John Lutz a part of the original, twelve member line up?
Oddly enough, he wasn't a part of the initial twelve. TJ Jagadowski, who does "TJ and Dave", he was in the show and then was hired at the main stage. Lutz then came in. Jack McBrayer was in it too. He eventually left, for some reason, I can't remember why. And then someone took his space. Again, I can't remember who.

How many years was this show a part of your life?
Probably around the last year and a half of my living in Chicago. It was like, in this three-year span. One thing happened after another, like every three months. That's the beauty of that type of community, constant movement. There are always new things going on. I personally never felt as if I was doing my best work there, but you're around such good work, you can't help but be affected.

I've read one of the basic ideas behind improv is justification. You justify what the other person on stage is saying, and make them look good. Did you practice this?
I hope so. I can't really remember a specific time.

Was it ever your goal to "shine"?
No, the goal was just to do a really good show with really good people. That we accomplished. And for me personally, I accomplished. The shows that had influenced us, in both their stature and the quality, like Lois Kaz and Jazz Freddy - we accomplished what they had by, not exactly aiming for it, but committing to it. I think if you aim for it sometimes, if you try to write the great American novel, it comes out a little forced. But this was a very stressful, artistic - it was something else. There were people involved who probably have a much better recollection then I because, at the same time I'd met my now wife Kay. We started dating and I was falling in love, so for the first time ever my focus was split. I met her in the Second City training center. Different classes but we were in the same level.

What first attracted you to her? Did you have similar goals?
Well, she's really pretty (laughter) that was initially. But I thought she was really funny. And she just had a energy about her that was alluring. She was an all-American quarter mile-er and was coaching track at Lewis University, where she ran. She was planning on becoming a teacher. Early on, yes I was crushing on her but I really thought she was good. Early on I brought here name up for the initial cast for J.T.S. Brown. No one knew her so she didn't get in. She ran box office for us, as my girlfriend. You know a stigma, which, for better or worse, lasted for a while.

Do you think it may have made things complicated if she actually became a member of J.T.S. Brown?
I don't know. The second we decided to fall in love with each other, it was October 26th...

You actually remember the day?
Yeah, because it was the same day of my first Second City show, it's a big day. It was the first time we said our "I love yous" and away we go. It was creative, artistic and romantic euphoria.

This was while Kay was still studying with Second City?
Yeah, and she eventually went to ImprovOlympic, and then auditioned for Boom Chicago. This brings us up to 2000. She leaves in January of 2000 to go to Boom Chicago, and is hired as a corporate manager, like a business manager. She eventually gets to do shows but she's running the corporate thing, running the group that's hired to perform corporate functions. Seth Meyers was the corporate writer at that point; he was an illustrious Boom alum. He was writing all of the scripts, Kay was running all of the shows, and I was in Chicago being miserable.

She was touring?
She was touring the continent more of less. But most of the shows were in Holland. Meanwhile, we're doing the long-distance thing. We have our ups and downs; a lot more downs then ups. We had just sort of moved in with each other six months earlier, so it was like one of those things. I eventually ended up quitting Second City's touring company to go be with Kay.

When you toured with Second City, where would you go?
I want to Vienna, Alaska, you know, Youngstown, Ohio. Everywhere. It was really a neat opportunity. My only complaint was that we didn't get to do more shows. It had that sort of "sports" feeling, when you're in the van doing bits with each other, getting to know people, getting to work with an ensemble. It was still hard, you know, all of this stuff was hard, I'm sort of glossing over that. That's because we're looking back on it. During it, it's the hardest damn thing you would ever do in your life. It's not dramatic; you just want to do good shows. You want to have a good show as a cast; you want to have a good show as an individual. Everybody's different, you know? Maybe it was hard for some people, and maybe it was the only good thing in their lives. For me, it was always great.

And you were juggling this with Kay being out of the country. What was the breaking point causing you to quit Second City?
Kay breaking up with me. I was miserable, you know? Just one of those things, grew an angry beard and shit. At the time I was sort of disenfranchised with Second City, just a tad. Not nearly as much as I eventually became. But I just wanted more out of the experience than I felt like I was getting. Truthfully, looking back, I probably wasn't giving it as much as I could've. And at the same time, the only time I could concentrate on anything besides the misery of not being with Kay was on stage, in a scene. Improvised or scripted, I could separate it from my mind. The second I stepped off stage, when the lights went black, that's exactly where my mind went. Heartbroken.

Would being in a touring company require a 24-hour commitment, not just mentally committing yourself while on stage?
No, I think I probably did that, which wasn't super healthy. Again, that's the way I personally work, I dive in and give a damn. In a way, that could become frustrating and mentally damaging to a degree. But you know, that's part of being bad at it and then becoming good. It's wisdom. So, luckily people at Boom Chicago knew my work - they had offered me a job in late '97, I auditioned just to audition and they offered me a job. I said no because I didn't want to move to Amsterdam right after moving to Chicago. But I really enjoy those guys, what they've done is really remarkable. If you ever read that story, these three guys from Northwestern go to Amsterdam on a class trip, and they create this comedy empire, it's just fantastic. They went from doing shows in the backs of bars, like the ones I'd mentioned in Ireland. And now they have this 200-seat dinner theater. Right in the middle of what is like the Times Square of Amsterdam. They're giving all of these young people, a lot of times right out of college, an opportunity to perform professionally. So, I move out there October 1st. I had done, what I didn't know was going to be my last Second City show in Chicago, thinking I was going to come back four months later. We were supposed to come back January the following year, Kay had a yearlong contract. So, I just go out there and finish the run with her. We repair our shit and get back on the same page, and sort of fall in love again, for real this time, more than ever. We start doing shows and it goes all right, it was good to go somewhere where I was on the outside looking in, so I could be a little bit more mature about it. Again, everything happens for a reason - it was good to be that guy. To come in and, not necessarily be a scab, but a hired gun in a way. At that point, they offered four-month contracts. It was just good timing, and I was easily convinced.

Did you replace someone at Boom Chicago?
No, they just added me to the group.

This was a nightly show?
It was. It was a five-person show and they'd also rotate the cast. You'd also do some of the business gigs here and there, so we were getting paid well. We didn't have to have any other kind of job.

Did you ever begin to feel nostalgic about your days with Second City?
Not nostalgic so much as looking back on it, taking in time to process the things I was doing that were personally, creatively and professionally self destructive. Not necessarily getting over all of them, but being able to tag them and say "Ok, here's something you have to watch out for." So, while in Amsterdam, I get a call from Kelly Leonard, the producer of Second City. He said he was bummed that I had quit. Again, I wouldn't say "quit" I'd just left for the time being. I was always planning on coming back and picking up where I'd left off. Kelly said, "Hey, we're opening this theater in Las Vegas." I was interested. He said, "We're going to have nine people out there. It's going to be a rotating cast, an hour and ten minute show, Mick Napier..." who was a genius director and improve guru, directing guru. Not to throw that word around, but he was just one of those guys who was remarkably creative. One of those guys, whenever I do something, Mick is always in the back of my head. I'm always saying, "I hope Mick would find this funny."

Was he hard to impress?
He was someone you wanted to impress. Was he hard to impress? Not in a bullying way, he was hard to impress. He'd seen a lot.

Was he funny?
Oh, he's hilariously funny. He's incredible. He's one of those guys who would fuckin' just do it any which way. He's the guy who created that show "Paradigm Lost" with Scott Adsit, Tina Fey, Dratch, Dorff, Jim Zulevic and Jenna Jolovitz. A Chicago show that was the artistic pinnacle for my tastes.

Did "Paradigm Lost" exist before you'd gotten involved with performing in Chicago?
This was before I'd gotten involved, yeah. I'd been watching the show. So, I found out he (Mick Napier) was directing Second City in Las Vegas. I was like "Yeah, I'll go do that. How long's the contract? Six months? That's not a problem. I just did four months here and that goes by fast." Kay and I had done the long-distance thing over the inter-continental, a six-hour time difference over the Atlantic. This? This will be nothing. This is a two-hour difference. She'd be able to come out to Vegas. It was a good opportunity. I said absolutely.

I actually visited that theater while I was in Vegas. It was during the day so it was empty but the place was nice, seemed very comfortable.
Yeah, I mean, it has its moments. You could sometimes hear the slot machines a little too much. So, January, Kay and I move back (to Chicago). We're there for a month, always knowing I'm going out to Vegas. They offered us to stay another year in Amsterdam; we declined after thinking about it. It was nice of them to offer but it was time to go home. We had stuff to do.

You had to leave; you smoked all the weed you could.
No, I did not (laughter) Las Vegas really took that over. I mean, I did it here and there. I did mushrooms, that was more my thing. It had a little more soul.

It makes you much happier.
Yeah, yeah. It was also legal there and you could get really good ones. I don't know if you've been there, but it's unbelievable. You could walk into like, Duane Reade, go to the counter and buy different types of mushrooms.

That sounds amazing.
It really is. One of the most profound experiences mushroom-wise was (laughter) I love this, it was me, Brenden Hunt, who wrote this great show "Five Years in Amsterdam" that kicked ass at Aspen this last year.

I'm pretty sure I've heard of that.
Yeah, yeah! If he comes back through here, you should keep your ears to the rail. It may be at UCB, maybe at . It's a fantastic, super hero creation story about the person he became after his Boom experience. It is everything that is wonderful about him as a person and a performer.

Is he from Chicago as well?
Yeah, he's one of the biggies. One of the best. (Back to the story) ...and Jordan Peele, who's one of the guys on Mad TV, one of the funniest, coolest dudes ever. He and Becky Drysdale used to do a show called "Two White Guys" in Chicago that was hilarious, two-person comedy. So, the three of us go see...ok, there was a guy there, Stephen Semberski, who ran this kick-ass comic book store and was super tatt-ed up. He ran lights and everything; he was with Boom Chicago for maybe three years, or something like that. And for every year for the last fifteen years, every Easter he gets super stoned and listens to Jesus Christ Superstar. He had listened to it so much as a kid that he can only listen to it only once a year now. So, he only listens to it on Easter, either Easter or Easter weekend. So, I'm not there around Easter, I'm there around Christmas. I'd heard he does this, he does it at the theater now, for the past three years because he worked there, He puts on the original soundtrack with Murray Head and Ian Gillam, from Deep Purple. My favorite musical of all time. It's just unbelievable and has a great story. It's really fantastic. So, for the last three years he plays "Superstar" in the theater, and Boom Chicago has all of the bells and whistles, lasers, lights, smoke and everything. It's really "Euro". So, he plays the light board and knows it like that back of his hand. He creates a light show for himself listening to this thing, this two disc CD compilation. I hear that he does this, I'm like "That's awesome, I love that thing, blah blah blah" We hit it off well enough. They called him "The Wizard", that was his nickname. He's like, "My gift to you before you leave, this Christmas Eve I'm going to do it for you." I said, "Are you kidding me? That's fantastic!" So Brenden and I go get mushrooms. Some badass, Hawaiian mushrooms, these little thin, heavy duty ones. And I get a chicken sandwich from the Burger King. Jordan gets super stoned out -all legal, mind you. And Stephen goes on to do it, and it's literally one of the most profound experiences ever. Each light is a character, like you're seeing things in the smoke. We're just sitting there, and it feels like I'm watching it in the third person. Like, I'm sitting here, but I'm behind myself watching. Jordan and I would look at each other after a moment if silence, and I'd say, "There's a lot of stuff going on up there." and he goes, "Are you kidding me? I just quit smoking." He may not smoke cigarettes still! It was incredible. We were captivated. You know, everything that was within me during this transitional point in my life was being displayed on this stage. I remember seeing in the smoke, script pages in a screenplay format. I remember seeing Kay's face being emoted in different ways.

Was this Jesus Christ Superstar-listening set in front of an entire audience?
No, it was just the three of us, the four of us with Steven. We had the whole theater to ourselves, Christmas Eve, two in the afternoon. So, we leave Amsterdam in January. Come home for a month, Kay stays there and is doing stuff and moves in with our friend Mike Bertrando. We get rid of our apartment. I'm , and you know, the show is tough. We're trying to do an original show and some archival material, which they do at Second City. You're doing scenes that Steve Carrell, Tina or Adsit used to do. Which I love doing because it's like getting to play your favorite parts in a Neil Simon play. How often do you get to be in the Karate Kid? Never. But with Second City you get to be in something that moved you.

Unless you're Ralph Macchio, then it's twice.
Or three times. Then Hilary Swank came in the fourth one.

Right, jumping on cars.
Mmmhmm. Oscar winner, two-time Oscar winner.

You're talking about Pat Morita, right.
Rest in peace. He lived in Vegas when he died.

Hmmm, around the same time you were there.
I'm not admitting anything. So, we're struggling to get this show cooking and stuff. But again, we're (Kay and I) long distance but, we're in it. Now we're committed to each other. Luckily, six months in - I was supposed to be there six months - she gets hired six months in. Next thing you know, 9/11 happened. So then, they narrowed the cast down from nine to five, and we got to stay. I ended up living there two years and nine months.

So 9/11 actually had a direct impact on the Las Vegas cast?
It had an effect on the world, if you remember. But yes, definitely Second City Las Vegas. Without sounding gross, it really helped the show because it became more consistent with having only five people doing it over and over. We really had to buckle down and focus. We, my wife, three others and I, did a show the night of 9/11 because the airport was shut down. So there were all of these people in the hotel who couldn’t fly anywhere, people were just stranded there. It was one of our biggest shows at that point. It was 200 people.

What was the audience like?
The audience was subdued and ready to laugh. We took out anything related to guns; we had to change the show around. Again, I've used this word four-five times, (the audience was) joyful. We couldn't believe we were doing it. It's a little surreal to be watching CNN all day, crying your eyes out then walking into this thing and seeing some asshole mad about losing on a slot machine. It was a weird thing, walking through the bells and seeing all of these people in line to come see your comedy show, and then go up there to do it and they love you for it.

That's the first time I'd heard about anyone performing comedy the day of the attacks. I mean Letterman even waited a week. That was the only day in my entire life I had not laughed once.
Yeah, it was profound.

And it seems like you had a job. All of these people were depending on you to make them laugh.
People needed it. I think we sold out two shows in a row. I don't think we'd ever sold out a show at all (before then). I don't know if they even charged, to be honest with you. It was just people in that theater, wanting for sixty-five minutes, to forget about it. Just for a little bit, you know? So, we did our thing and it was great. It was one of those nights I'll never forget. So, that goes on for a while and we're always doing this archive show. Then at one point they asked us if we wanted to do an original show. We had a good cast, it was me, Joe Kelly, Seamus McCarthy, Kay Cannon, Holly Walker and the people who produced the show in Chicago asked us if we wanted to produce an original show. I was a little hesitant at first because the last time we did an original thing it didn't go so great. I admit to that, but they pushed for it, I was like, "Okay." They bring in a director, Marc Warzecha, great guy and we all created this show called "Not Yet Ready For $3.99 Prime Rib Players" or something like that, some riff on the $3.99 buffet deals in Vegas. Opening night, my Uncle George comes, as does Larry Campbell, who is from According To Jim. He's a Second City alum from Detroit.

He's the best part of According To Jim.
Yep, terrific dude. Neil Flynn from Scrubs comes, also a Second City alum. I believe Nicole Sullivan from Mad TV was there. This was probably May of 2003. So they come to the show then after that, Larry Campbell, has his manager at Brillstein and Grey, this guy Goeff Cheddy come see it. Cheddy is also George's manager but I don't think it was George saying: "Hey, you should check out this show" it was the combination of the two of them. I think Larry was really more insistent than George at that time. But, however it went down, Cheddy comes to see the show. You know, a manager coming out, which wasn't unheard of. Cause it's Vegas and a lot of industry people would come to see our show. Bob Odenkirk came to our show when he was casting for his sketch show "Next". So, people would come out there. William Morris was representing Second City at that point.

Why do you think it was such a big deal on opening night? Was there a huge buzz on the cast?
No, not at all. Larry knew Warzecha from Detroit, George knew Kay and I, obviously, Neil may have just come out for a Vegas weekend. It was one of those, just for the hell of it. I will say this about the Vegas experience, I went crazy there. I wanted to be a . I was so frustrated with Second City, for no good reason. Maybe a good reason but nothing I could really... it was a "I'm mad at the world" type of thing. Shaved my head, started drumming every night. Now, I am not a drummer whatsoever. We became friends with a lot of the Blue Man Group guys that were performing at the Luxor. I went so for as, I went to the audition in Vegas, Got through the look thing, got to the drumming thing and I couldn't even do the (plays an impressive drum beat on the restaurant's table) accented triplets. Spent a month busting my ass in front of a mirror with drum pads and Blue Man drum sticks. Rehearsing everyday, to the point when I could fuckin do it. Then Sara Gee, who was in the original cast of J.T.S. Brown and was in Vegas at the time, drove me out to L.A. and I auditioned there, got called back and did the acting audition, which was easier for me. Then was flown to New York. This was all before 9/11. I became obsessed with it.

Do you consider that "going crazy"?
A little bit, because I wanted to be anonymous and I wanted to be silent. And a bunch of people telling me "Why are you doing this?!" Even my own wife. "Talking is your thing." People in Blue Man were like "If you stop talking, then that's a bummer to me" Cause we were doing this improv show, I mean, Vegas was this amazing...we created this improv show at this coffee house. This long-form thing. We created almost this little improv community, between the teachings, the shows. While we were still doing Second City, we'd take Wednesdays off and do the "Absolutely Not The Second City".

So you were basically creating a scene.
To a degree, yeah. I mean, not just me, our group. The way we found this, Blue Man Group was doing the same thing. You have a bunch of Berkeley trained musicians, badasses, and they play the same notes every single night. That show is by the book. They keep track of how many marshmallows you drop, they're militant. Just to keep the quality of the show up, there's a reason for it. But I was attracted to it at that point because their show was so tight and so well-focused and I felt ours was too loosey-goosey, so that was my judgment. So they created, all of those musicians had this group created by this guy, Elvis Lederer, this German guy. With the long hair and Vegas personality he created a show called Uberschall, which is German for Super Sound. Where it would be four drummers, a bassist and two guitarist. And they would improvise, they would riff. It was incredible; they were making movie soundtracks every single night. We'd go see them at this coffee shop and it would blow us away. So, then Sara Gee and Jean Villepique, both early Vegas cast members, were very instrumental in getting that space, seeing if we could use it for our little improv thing. The manager asked, "What is it? Sure." The next thing you know, fifty people, sixty people, a hundred kids. It became this cool thing to come see. "Absolutely Not The Second City" we had to call ourselves because of contracts.

Did you ever advertise?
Never advertised, all word of mouth.

And by this time the internet was available so obviously people online were discussing the show?
Maybe, I wasn't aware of it. I don't think we ever put it on the internet. I mean, where do you put it, Vegas.com? Where you can only find Wayne Newton. So, that's all going on at that time. The Blue Man Group was this laser-focus again. So, I eventually get flown out here (New York) August of 2001.

Did Second City know this?
Second City knew it. I had built up two weeks of vacation time, I was ready to spend the whole two weeks here, get the job and leave Second City, and become a Blue Man. It didn't work out, my drumming skills weren't up to par. But I did get to live out my dream of being bald and blue, just like Tobias. So, I came back from that whole experience. And after the show sort of shifted, we became five people in the show, we got better and better, and the crowds got better and better. I became sane again to a certain degree. And also Kay moving out to Vegas.

Was she in Vegas during your Blue Man interest?
She was for a part of it. A lot of times, it was me going back to Chicago with this damn drum pad, drumming for an hour while she was wanting to kiss or go see a movie, I was annoying. In the dressing room I would practice in between shows, bless the guy's hearts that I shared the dressing room with. I would've wanted to kill me. I talked about it incessantly. So, cut to Cheddy coming out to see the show. He took a real shine to Kay and I and Seamus. He asked if I had ever thought about auditioning for SNL, I said, "No, it didn't even cross my mind"

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